Ep 89 The Counterpart — Sabine Hutchison on Partnership, Pressure, and Finding Your Person

So thank you for joining me today, Sabine. Look at you.

Well, Gina, thanks for having me. I'm really curious about where this conversation is going to go.

Exciting! But before we get started, what's in your cup this morning? Do you have a cup? Do you have something?

have two cups. I have a cup of tea and I have a glass of water. I'm hydrating. I'm trying. That's also one of my key things right now. Hydration.

So you've had your caffeine this morning. I've got an iced coffee today.

Mmm. Yeah. Have had one cup of coffee. Yep. And lots of water and tea.

Awesome. And can you tell everyone in the world where you're joining from?

I am in Hamburg, Germany. would say normally beautiful sunny Hamburg, Germany, but it's rainy and a bit gray, but still nice.

Oof. Well, hopefully it's sunny again tomorrow. So we've known each other for what? 13, I think, years now or so?

I hope so too.

A long time, Gina. Oh my goodness. Through lots of evolution, right? 13 years, that's a lot of development. A lot of growth. Yeah, absolutely. Like every day.

Yeah, and we change daily, don't we? Continuous learning. And have you always felt, we talked about this a little bit before, but have you always felt that collaboration was a big part of where you've come from?

Yeah, definitely. Collaboration is like all me, I think. Even when I was younger, I had two sisters growing up. And I think we were like little mini collaborators. We were always like little partners in crime and coming up with schemes to get things done and things that we wanted. So I was even collaborating as a child, but I guess most of us do that. And also in college, if you really go back, or if I go back, I should say.

I had to collaborate in my studies. I studied chemistry, so I did a lot of alone work, but also collaborated with your bench partners and then work definitely too. I love collaborating because I see that as a way for us to also support each other and to lift each other up. And that's a very important part of who I am is supporting others.

I love that and I really love that and it reminds me that you wrote about that in your book about the power squad.

Yeah, yeah, the power squad. I know. Yeah, it's interesting. Even interviewing all of the ladies in the book, almost all of them had power squads. And that was, and it was interesting too, because they had different power squads based on what they needed or where they were or questions that they had. So they would have different groups of people that they would go to.

Can you tell us about that a little bit?

Yeah, for different challenges that they were facing. I remember one mentioned that she had someone, if she needed to look at industry questions and things that needed to be factual, she would have a group of individuals. And they even had a WhatsApp group where they could ask each other questions. And then she would have individuals that she needed, that she would brainstorm with that were like this creative. And she could ping pong back and forth. And then she also had individuals where she really needed guidance.

and where she would go to them for that. And the size, some of the people, she mentioned that the group where she needed the guidance was a little bit smaller than some of the other ones where she would go back and forth. And I definitely have that too. And the collaboration piece is that even as I've shifted in some of the roles that I have, so for instance, I was for years.

and leadership roles within the healthcare business women's association. So it's an association to support women in their career development. And I've continued, even though some of us aren't working together anymore on a volunteer basis, I've continued the collaboration individually. So I've made sure to set up calls monthly with people. So we keep that connection point. I think that's so important.

You're so awesome at that. The calls, having all of those, the check-ins with your squad.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love it. always, not always, sometimes you just chit chat and it's just nice. It's a good chance to exchange ideas. But very often I leave with like, that's a good thing. Or it's a new introduction to another person or somebody sends you an article that is helpful and something that you're working on. So it always leads to something. And I think we can get so wrapped up in our world of working.

that this time for our squad can fall away. And I think it's just important not to. It gives me energy.

That's awesome. And of course you pick different types of people to feed you in the different ways. But you mentioned, you triggered me because you mentioned that you can get wrapped up in the daily of everything. That is also that do it all mentality, right? Like how have you navigated that over the years? Because you've built some incredible things and you've done some amazing things. You're an author, you've got a platform, you're a CEO, you're a founder. You've had this incredible journey yourself.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

But how has that been like over the years and what does that cost you? That do-it-all mentality.

I feel like I'm still an evolution of that. It's like in my mind, I know that as a leader, you need to delegate and you need to have people support you. But I, if I'm completely transparent and kind of vulnerable in all of this, is that I still have a tendency to, I don't know that it's the control, but it's just the doing. I'm a doer and I can fall in the trap of wanting to do too much.

and trying to have it all on my plate and think, I'll just do that or I'll just do this or I'll just do this. And it can be detrimental to me as a person and it's detrimental to the other people around me because it can give them a sense that I don't trust them to do something.

That's a really good point. That's a really good point to always keep in the back of your mind too, right? Because it does impact people around you. It's true, yeah. And I know the do it all mentality, right? This is also...

Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely.

Quite common for people like you and I, the mavericks of the world. Like we actually love, I think there's a, there's a, amazing rush also that comes from getting things done and being proud of yourself and figuring it out and doing it. Right? Like we love it through all the struggle as well. But, but there's also a point where getting some help or finding, what that feels like. Right? Can you, do you remember a project or something, a project or a,

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, for sure.

Yeah.

something you were working on where you thought, this is what it can feel like when you let somebody in?

Mm-hmm.

Probably the most recent example of that is when I started this book. And so when I started Beyond the Ladder and when I started the Ripple Network, those two things are the most recent for me. They're the newest kind of adventures that I'm on. you know, I'm a co-CEO of Seuss+ So that obviously is a...

is the priority for the business to be successful. have employees. It's a hugely significant part of my life. So it's important that that runs and works. I also had this drive for the book and to work on the Ripple Network. initially I had the idea and I started going at it on my own. was like, well, I can't do all this. I just don't have all these skills.

And so actually one of the first people that I reached out to was you. You were the one. And I was like, I'm overwhelmed. think I say that to you quite a bit. I'm overwhelmed, Gina. What do do? Yeah, yeah. And it's like I have this energy while that as I'm doing things and it's exciting and it really pumps me up. But

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, we ping pong that, don't we?

It's also trying to balance everything and to keep everything moving. And I just, I couldn't, so I needed expertise and also specifically with building the platform. for instance, with building the Ripple network that needed a whole set that you and within OG solutions, you know, and who, and Oscar who's supporting with that as well, that

I needed support for that because I have no idea what to do. So that was clear that I needed somebody. And then through our conversations, and I think that that's an important thing, is talking about things and not keeping everything for yourself and internalizing, I have to do all this stuff. So as you start to communicate and share ideas and talk about things, other people are like, I've seen this done this way, or have you thought about this, or this could be a solution. So the conversations actually helped to.

They lead to solutions. So that's one thing that I found is that don't keep everything inside. Talk about things because it can lead to connections and other, you can grow your squad because of the conversations that you have. So that was really important. Also, when I started to do the book, you know, reached out to you because I needed to, the brand, the website, who is, what is this going to look like?

And you were a key piece in that to help me start getting focused and structuring things and moving forward with that. So, yeah, totally.

That can be quite overwhelming, I think, right? I always, I always say, you've heard me say this before. you, can try and do a hundred things as, as an entrepreneur or as a leader, but, but you will get inundated with a million things to do, right? That nothing, not everything will have the right amount of focus. And if you focus on less things, but do them really, really well and perfect, the amount of impact that comes from doing less is so much significantly more. So I think.

Mmm.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

having that power squad or the people around you, the people that pump you up but also give you the energy to be able to put your all into the smaller amount of things you make so much more impact to. It's amazing.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah. And sometimes it's a tough decision because, know, putting kind of Seuss+ aside and just thinking about the book and about the Ripple network, it's still, it's a startup. It's, you know, this is all just the finances, you know, have invested a lot into making this happen. And so when you think about outsourcing and about getting the help that you need, you also need to look at the financial piece of it.

and weigh out, okay, what can I spend and that spend, what is going to be the benefit of that spend and how can I then do other things, not focusing on doing post-production of a podcast. That takes me forever. And then I can focus on contacting people about the book if I pass that on. So it's weighing that out and just making a decision like, okay, I can be so much more powerful if I'm in my jam and I give that

Yeah.

you, your jam and everyone in their strength. Yeah, that's a much better way to do it besides calling you jam. Everyone in their strength. Yeah, so it's just deciding to do that. And I have to say at in September, I had a huge aha moment because I was doing everything and.

Yeah, everyone in their strength. It's awesome.

I like to jam. But I like to jam too. We can totally jam out Sabine. I'm all over it.

doing the Seuss+ stuff during the day and then the evening, sometimes doing the book stuff in the days and my weekends is like, I didn't have any more time. know, my husband is super tolerant and supportive and tolerant. Yeah, he's tolerant too, because you have to be a bit when you do this, but supportive as well and knows, you know, why I'm doing this. But it's like, I have to have time for my life too, because that's where more creative ideas come. And so I was like, okay, this has got to stop.

because I'm dropping the ball too and it's too much. And I was like, all right, I was gonna say, Gina, give me a proposal. So back to Gina again. I know it feels like this is the Gina podcast, but whoever it is, this is advice to anyone. You are part of my squad. So obviously I go to you, but whoever is listening here, find somebody that works for you.

Yeah. That's confronting then, right? Yeah. Yeah.

Look.

You know, I obviously can vouch for you because you've done a lot of great things for me, but there are other people and there are other tools and there are other things out there. So that's the key is making the decision to say, OK, I can use my time more wisely and for these aspects of running the business and then to give something away. And it's much more efficient and it's consistent because that's what I was not doing, especially all of the. If you look at the world we live in now, social media and.

and getting the word out is all about consistency. And if you don't have that, it's like you start over every time. So if you lag a week or two, then you're starting over again, because you're starting, you know, if you're consistent for a while, you're starting to, know, the algorithms are working, the things are happening, and then you don't, and then, you know, then you have to start again. So I was like, okay, this is just not working. So in September, I was like, okay, Q4 is all about me getting support and getting consistency.

and focusing in my strength and I ask you to help with that. So I'm really happy. just, my God. I felt like some, you know, it's like, if you listen to your body too, I was feeling like this pressure in my chest, this weight on my shoulders and it is like, my gosh, I feel like I can't breathe. And as soon as we had that conversation and I was like, okay, I said, I can spend this much, Gina, what can you do for me in that amount? And you came back with a really good plan.

Yeah

I like, ah, I felt like I could breathe again. Ah, yeah, woo, it was awesome. It was really good. I like, I got some oxygen back.

Exhale. that's awesome. Shoo.

I mean, we've worked together for years, so I mean, we connect in so many different ways. We're friends, we're associates, we do all of this work together. how do you, do you have any advice for anyone who doesn't actually know how to decide who their person or people could be?

Yeah, that's a good one. You do have to spend time with them because this is for me, all of this is very, it's very personal. First of all, it's me and it's my brand and it's my book, it's my passion projects. So they're very important. So definitely connection. And you need, I feel that you need to spend some time with someone that you're going to hire and you need to make sure, you know, talk about this in the book too, that values, that you're connected, that it's not just

It's your passion projects too.

the output of a project, but it's like kind of is the core similar? And do you believe kind of in the same things because that's going to impact what the output is like. So that's really important for me is that actually spending that time with someone and making sure that it's the right fit and on a values level and a fun level that you can really, you know, it gives you energy after you talk to that person or the company or whoever you decide to

awesome.

Yeah. Yeah, and you have to be able to be comfortable, fully being transparent with each other. I think that's also a really important element too, because you have to be on the same page no matter what, right? And you won't always be on the same page, but you have to be able to talk about that in that kind of relationship too, to be there for each other. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, going back to trust because it's very vulnerable. It's, you you're really, you're, sharing parts of yourself that where you're talking about, Hey, I'm not good at this. Can, can you do this for me? So you have to build that level of trust. Yeah.

Totally. And then if I could ask you one more thing before we wrap up. What's one small thing that a leader can do this week to help open themselves up to a partnership or a sort of shared story with somebody else?

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

If you have an idea or if you have something that you want to work on, have a couple of conversations this week with people. Just get it out, like say it out loud. I need help with this. Do you happen to know someone? And use a network is so great. So talk to people that you trust and ask them if they know anyone.

That is awesome advice.

So that's a really simple thing to do, but it's like getting that conversation started because then even if it doesn't become apparent in that conversation, they could think about it and go, my, you so often that happens. Then you have a, then that person has a conversation like, my gosh, I know somebody that is looking for this and then can make that connection. So it's talking about it, I think. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. That was ripples.

It's the ripples. Sabine, you did it again. It's actually rippling out. And I think the moment that you also vocalize some of that as well, even if it's just to your partner, right? Or if it's to a friend, I think that's also the moment where you start in your head going, wait a minute, maybe I actually do need somebody or I need to build a squad around me or I need a person. I think that also helps you to see that too.

Yeah, it is a rip. It's rippling out. Definitely. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

I was on just I don't have a second just to say something else. I was interviewed in a podcast yesterday and we were talking about she asked also around what is a piece of advice for somebody that wants to start speaking. And it's a similar kind of idea. It's like saying it out loud. Oftentimes we read something or we have a talk or we have something in our heads and we play it and we speak it in our heads.

Yeah, yeah, cool, of course.

but somehow this verbally getting it from our heads out improves it. So it's the same, it's with speaking, it's like don't just read the words in your head, say them out loud to practice. And it's the same with getting the support that you need. Don't just think it, say it out loud to someone. And that, you're right, that's the ripple piece that can start things moving.

awesome and that having a network like the Ripple Network also helps you to be able to go out there and say something out loud that's your story and start to try and tell the story. But to close out the show, where can people find you online? Where can they get your book? Where can they find you?

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Well, we're working on getting it on Amazon so and forth. It's not yet on Amazon, but we're working on it. But until then, can find it. The book is under sabinehutchison.com And you can also check out theripplenetwork.com if you're interested in learning more about speaking and getting your voice out.

and you have a podcast too. You want to promote that too?

I have podcast too. yeah, that's a good one. Thanks Gina. I do have a podcast and it's called Be the Ripple Podcast and you can find that on Spotify, YouTube, and Apple under Be the Ripple Podcast.

Awesome. Well, I thank you so much. It's also been a pleasure, my goodness, being your friend and colleague and confidant of all of these years. And I can't wait for another 15 years together, Sabine.

Yeah, I know. Who knows what's coming? Watch out.

I don't know. Stay tuned. Thank you so much for joining me on my third episode of, on the fourth episode of the new season of the Morning Cup of Brand Spark. So thank you very much. And I wish you a lovely, lovely day. Thank you.

Thanks, Gina. All right.

Yeah, well, thanks for having me. Thanks, Gina. Bye.